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壮语维基百科翻譯請求

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发表于 2007-9-14 05:39:00 |显示全部楼层

Hi Everyone,

 

The Interface messages of Zhuang Wikipedia (http://za.wikipedia.org/) needs to be translated into the Zhuang language. (Because the Zhuang Wikipedia interface is currently in Chinese).

I know exactly how to translate the interface and would like to help.

Can someone please give me the Zhuang translation for the following words (I have given both the English and Chinese versions to make it easier):

*Main Page/首页 = ?
*Community portal/社区 = ?
*Current events/当前事件 = ?
*Recent changes/最近更改 = ?
*Random page/随机页面 = ?
*Help/帮助 = ?
*Donations/资助 = ?
*Navigation/导航 = ?
*Search/搜索 = ?
*Go/进入 = ?
*January = ?
*February = ? 
*March = ?
*April = ?
*May = ?
*June = ?
*July = ?
*August = ?
*September = ?
*October = ?
*November = ?
*December = ?

*Sunday= ?
*Monday= ?
*Tuesday= ?
*Wednesday= ?
*Thursday= ?
*Friday= ?

*Saturday= ?
*Toolbox/工具箱 = ?
*What links here/链入页面 = ?
*Related changes/链出更改 = ?
*Upload file/上传文件 = ?
*Special pages/特殊页面 = ?
*Printable version/可打印版 = ?
*Permanent link/永久链接 = ?
*Cite this article = ?
*In other languages/其它语言 = ?
*Article/文章 = ?
*Discussion/讨论 = ?
*Edit/编辑 = ?
*History/历史 = ?
*Delete/删除 = ?
*Protect/保护 = ?
*Log in/登录 = ?
*Create Account/创建账号 = ?
*Create an account/创建一个账号 = ?
*Create article =
*Log out/退出 = ?
*Not logged in = ?
*Move/移动 = ?
*Move page/移动页面 = ?
*Move this page = ?
*moved to/移动到 =
*[[$1]] moved to [[$2]] =
*Reason/原因 =
*Watch/坚视 = ?
*My Watchlist/监视列表 = ?
*My talk/我的对话页 = ?
*My preferences/參數設置 = ?
*My contributions/我的贡献 = ?
*Summary = ?
*This is a minor edit/这是一个小修改 = ?
*Watch this page/监视本页 = ?
*Save page/保存本页 = ?
*Show preview/显视预览 = ?
*Show changes/显视差异 = ?
*Cancel/取消 = ?
*Editing Help/编辑帮助 = ?
*User page = ?
*Username/用户名 = ?
*Password/密码 = ?
*Re-type password/再次输入密码 = ?
*E-mail = ?
*Remember my login on this computer/下次登录记住密码 = ?
*User Contributions/用户贡献 = ?
*Login required to edit = ?
*View source/查看源代码 = ?
*Message
*new messages = ?
*You have new messages on $1 = ?
*You have $1 ($2).
*== Welcome, $1! == Your account has been created. Don't forget to change your Wikipedia preferences. = ?

 

Any help would be appreciated, (Just try your best effort!)


Yours Sincerely,
From Joseph


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发表于 2007-9-14 15:03:00 |显示全部楼层

Hi Joseph, glad to help. First of all, My english is poor

There are some problems to solve before any translation. First, there are several dialet in Zhuang, and break apart into two regions mainly: Nothern Zhuang and Southern Zhuang. Each one and its dialet has different spelling method to record their speech. A official language of Zhuang has made by the government, it's so called "标准壮语"(Standard language of Zhuang). The most problem to translate foreign language into Zhuang, is that, there are no a uniform method or referenc in the loanword translation.

I am not familiar with the standard Zhuang, so I can only try my best to translate these words into my dialet. If a word is hard to say in Zhuang, I will leave it blank or fill a transliteration from Han that speak in my dialet. And, I will try to expalin my translation in english. Here it is:

*Main Page/首页 = Mae meh (EN: 'mae' as 'page', 'a piece of'; 'meh' as "mother", "main")
*Community portal/社区 = ?
*Current events/当前事件 = ?
*Recent changes/最近更改 = Gaeqgaij suijnej (EN: 'gaeq' as "these...", "some", put in the front to construct a noun; 'gai' is transliteration of Han "改"; "suij' as "recent", "soon"; "nej" as "this", "these")
*Random page/随机页面 = Mae zaihzex (EN: "zaih" as "let he/she/it doing something as there considered; "zex" is a auxiliary word, is construct by the consonant of word before its)
*Help/帮助 = Caeuq (EN: "caeuq" as "with", "help", its semantic is determine by the context)
*Donations/资助 = ?
*Navigation/导航 = Dazzaeuh (EN: "daz" as "guide", "zaeuh" as "boating")
*Search/搜索 = Cwmh (EN: "cwmh" as "search")
*Go/进入 = Bei (EN: "bei" as "go", "go to", "to")
*January = Nin Wtj (EN: "Nin" as "month"; "wtj" as "one", "first")
*February = Nin Yeih (EN: "Yeih" as "two")
*March = Nin Sam
*April = Nin Seiq
*May = Nin Haj
*June = Nin Loekj
*July = Nin Caet
*August = Nin Betq
*September = Nin Gouj
*October = Nin Cwbx (EN: "cwbx" as "ten")
*November = Nin Cwbx Wtj
*December = Nin Cwbx Yeih

*Sunday= ?
*Monday= ?
*Tuesday= ?
*Wednesday= ?
*Thursday= ?
*Friday= ?
*Saturday= ?
*Toolbox/工具箱 = Loengx hong (EN: "Loengx" as "box"; "hong" as "thing", "goods", "tool", and so on)
*What links here/链入页面 = Maelaez lamh haenznej (EN: "laez" as "what", "which"; "lamh" as "link, bind"; "haenz" as "palce"; "hej" as "this, this..place, this...good")
*Related changes/链出更改 = ?
*Upload file/上传文件 =
*Special pages/特殊页面 = ?
*Printable version/可打印版 = ?
*Permanent link/永久链接 = ?
*Cite this article = ?
*In other languages/其它语言 = ?
*Article/文章 = ?
*Discussion/讨论 = Kwng
*Edit/编辑 = ?
*History/历史 = Doenghmatq
*Delete/删除 = ?
*Protect/保护 = Hahdiuz
*Log in/登录 =
*Create Account/创建账号 = ?
*Create an account/创建一个账号 = ?
*Create article =
*Log out/退出 =
*Not logged in = Maengx laezhaej 
*Move/移动 = Caen (EN: "caen" as "move")
*Move page/移动页面 = Caen doengh mae
*Move this page = Caen mae nej
*moved to/移动到 = Caen bei
*[[$1]] moved to [[$2]] = Caen bei
*Reason/原因 =
*Watch/坚视 = Demq
*My Watchlist/监视列表 = Gaeq gou demq
*My talk/我的对话页 = Gaeq gou gangj
*My preferences/參數設置 = Doenghgaeq gou hae
*My contributions/我的贡献 = ?
*Summary = Saegmangj
*This is a minor edit/这是一个小修改 = ?
*Watch this page/监视本页 = Demq mae-nej
*Save page/保存本页 = ?
*Show preview/显视预览 = ?
*Show changes/显视差异 = ?
*Cancel/取消 = Fwtqfex (EN: "fwt" as "discard, cancel"; put auxiliary word "fex" back to construct a noun or verb.)
*Editing Help/编辑帮助 = ?
*User page = Mae bouxdeiz (EN:  "boux" as "person"; "deiz" as "to use, to handle")
*Username/用户名 = Ciu bouxdeiz (EN: "ciu" as "call someone's name";)
*Password/密码 = ?
*Re-type password/再次输入密码 = ?
*E-mail = ?
*Remember my login on this computer/下次登录记住密码 = ?
*User Contributions/用户贡献 = ?
*Login required to edit = ?
*View source/查看源代码 = Liuq lagh mae-nej
*Message
*new messages =
*You have new messages on $1 =
*You have $1 ($2) = Mungz meiz
*== Welcome, $1! == Your account has been created. Don't forget to change your Wikipedia preferences. = ?

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-14 16:02:54编辑过]

以还原僚语思维、文字为己任。双定壮语:Gou yaenx euq doeg a? Gou zaemh mayj taen-roen gaz!汉  语:余岂好辩哉?余不得已也!
http://blog.tayrau.info
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发表于 2007-9-15 15:39:00 |显示全部楼层

Thankyou very much for your brilliant translation help!

You are Awesome!

May you Prosper!

If anyone else knows the Zhuang translations for these words, then it would be great:

*Community portal/社区 = ?
*Current events/当前事件 = ?
*Donations/资助 = ?
*Sunday= ?
*Monday= ?
*Tuesday= ?
*Wednesday= ?
*Thursday= ?
*Friday= ?
*Saturday= ?
*Related changes/链出更改 = ?
*Upload file/上传文件 =
*Special pages/特殊页面 = ?
*Printable version/可打印版 = ?
*Permanent link/永久链接 = ?
*Cite this article = ?
*In other languages/其它语言 = ?
*Article/文章 = ?
*Edit/编辑 = ?
*Delete/删除 = ?
*Log in/登录 =
*Create Account/创建账号 = ?
*Create an account/创建一个账号 = ?
*Create article =
*Log out/退出 =
*Reason/原因 =
*My contributions/我的贡献 = ?
*Summary = Saegmangj
*This is a minor edit/这是一个小修改 = ?
*Save page/保存本页 = ?
*Show preview/显视预览 = ?
*Show changes/显视差异 = ?
*Editing Help/编辑帮助 = ?
*Password/密码 = ?
*Re-type password/再次输入密码 = ?
*E-mail = ?
*Remember my login on this computer/下次登录记住密码 = ?
*User Contributions/用户贡献 = ?
*Login required to edit = ?
*Message
*new messages =
*You have new messages on $1 =
*== Welcome, $1! == Your account has been created. Don't forget to change your Wikipedia preferences. = ?

From Joseph.


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发表于 2007-9-15 16:41:00 |显示全部楼层
不是标准壮文的表达。

Mwngz ndei,Dieggagguenj Bouxcuengh Guengjsae(Gvangjsih Bouxcuengh Swcigih)!
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发表于 2007-9-16 07:56:00 |显示全部楼层

Hi Joseph. It's me again :-)

I've re-translated some words to make more appropriate, and wrote some new translation for the remain words. There are a few words leave blank cause they were under consideration, they will be translated in these days.

I reformat all the paragraph to make it easy to distinguish these changes.

Note that, these translation all translated by my Shuangding dialet fo Zhuang, its a dialet of Southern Zhuang. Why dialet? Because few people use the standard one!

*Main Page/首页 = Mae meh
['mae' as 'page, a piece of'; 'meh' as "mother, main"]

*Community portal/社区 = ?
*Current events/当前事件 = ?
*Recent changes/最近更改 = Gaeqgaij suijnej
['gaeq' as "these...", "some", put in the front to construct a noun; 'gai' is transliteration of Han "改"; "suij' as "recent, soon"; "nej" as "this, these"]

*Random page/随机页面 = Mae zaihzex
["zaih" as "let he/she/it doing something as there considered; "zex" is a auxiliary word, construct by the consonant of word before its, place back to construct a noun]

*Help/帮助 = Caeuq
["caeuq" as "with, help", its semantic is determine by the context]

*Donations/资助 = ?

*Navigation/导航 = Dazzaeuh
["daz" as "guide"; "zaeuh" as "boating"]

*Search/搜索 = Cwmh
["cwmh" as "search"]

*Go/进入 = Bei
["bei" as "go, go to, to"]

*January = Nin Wtj
["Nin" as "month"; "wtj" as "one", "first"]

*February = Nin Yeih
["Yeih" as "two"]

*March = Nin Sam
*April = Nin Seiq
*May = Nin Haj
*June = Nin Lokj
*July = Nin Caet
*August = Nin Betq
*September = Nin Gouj
*October = Nin Cwbx
[EN: "cwbx" as "ten"]
*November = Nin Cwbx Wtj
*December = Nin Cwbx Yeih

*Sunday= Swnggeiz Yaet; Ngoenz Swnggeiz
["Swnggeiz" was transliterated from Han(星期, week); "ngoenz" as "day"]

*Monday= Swnggeiz Wtx
*Tuesday= Swnggeiz Yeih
*Wednesday= Swnggeiz Sam
*Thursday= Swnggeiz Seiq
*Friday= Swnggeiz Haj
*Saturday= Swnggeiz Lokj

*Toolbox/工具箱 = Loengx hong
["Loengx" as "box"; "hong" as "thing, goods, tools" and so on]

*What links here/链入页面 = Maelaez lamh haenznej
["laez" as "what, which"; "lamh" as "link, bind"; "haenz" as "palce"; "hej" as "this, this..place"]

*Related changes/链出更改 = ?

*Upload file/上传文件 =

*Special pages/特殊页面 = Doenghmae daegxsei

*Printable version/可打印版 = ?
*Permanent link/永久链接 = gaeq-lamh kaemdaengz
["kaem" as "be able to bear or endure", "daengz" as "for a long time, duration", so "kaemdaengz" meaning "Lasting or remaining without essential change", that is "permanent".]

*Cite this article = ?
*In other languages/其它语言 = ?

*Article/文章 = Faenzueng
[transliterate from Han "文章"]

*Discussion/讨论 = Kwng

*Edit/编辑 = San-zonz
["san" as "to weave"; "zonz" as "tidy (up), clean up, pack up"]

*History/历史 = Doenghmatq
["matq" as "time, once", "doengh" as "some, those, these", put in the front to construct a plural noun]

*Delete/删除 = Lekxdeuz
["lekx" as "expunge, line (segment)", "deuz" as "run, to take/kick/run(can be any verb) away"]

*Protect/保护 = Hahdiuz
["hah" as "to protect, protect"; "diuz" as "place, deposit", place back to construct present participle]

*Log in/登录 = Laizdiuz haeuj
["laiz" as "crawl, creeping, write"; "haeuj" as "get into, into, belong to, install, cause by"]

*Create Account/创建账号 = ?

*Create an account/创建一个账号 = ?
*Create article =

*Log out/退出 = Laizdiuz okq
["okq" as "out, out from"]

*Not logged in = Maengx laizdiuz haej
["maengx" as "not yet"]

*Move/移动 = Caen
["caen" as "move"]

*Move page/移动页面 = Caen doengh mae
*Move this page = Caen mae nej
*moved to/移动到 = Caen bei
*[[$1]] moved to [[$2]] = Caen bei
*Reason/原因 = Haujgaemj
["gaemj" as "what, why"]

*Watch/坚视 = Demq
*My Watchlist/监视列表 = Gaeq gou demq
*My talk/我的对话页 = Gaeq gou gangj
*My preferences/參數設置 = Doenghgaeq gou hae
*My contributions/我的贡献 = Gaeq gou haej
["haej" as "give, contibute"]

*Summary = Saegjmangj
["saegj" as "a little, some"; "mangj" as "a part of, part"]

*This is a minor edit/这是一个小修改 = Di-nej gaij noix
["di" as "a little"; "noix" as "minor, lack, a few"]

*Watch this page/监视本页 = Demq mae-nej

*Save page/保存本页 = Zonzdiuz mae-nej

*Show preview/显视预览 = Okqhaej piu-ngoengx
["piu" as "beyond, advance"; "ngoengx" as "look, view"]

*Show changes/显视差异 = Okqhaej gaeqgaei
*Cancel/取消 = Daenghdeuz
["Daengh" as "suit, suit to, counteract"]

*Editing Help/编辑帮助 = Caeuq mungz san-zonz
["mungz" as "you"]

*User page = Mae bouxdeiz
["boux" as "person"; "deiz" as "to use, to handle"]

*Username/用户名 = Ciu bouxdeiz
["ciu" as "call someone's name";]

*Password/密码 = ?
*Re-type password/再次输入密码 = ?
*E-mail = ?

*Remember my login on this computer/下次登录记住密码 = ?

*User Contributions/用户贡献 = Gaeq bouxdeiz haej

*Login required to edit = Laezdiuz haeuj aiq naej san-zonz
["aiq" as "then"; "naej" as "can, able to"]

*View source/查看源代码 = Liuq lagh mae-nej
["liuq" as "view, look, peek"; "lagh" as "root, source"]

*Message =
*new messages =
*You have new messages on $1 =
*You have $1 ($2) = Mungz meiz $1 ($2)
*== Welcome, $1! == Your account has been created. Don't forget to change your Wikipedia preferences. = ?

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-16 8:07:58编辑过]

以还原僚语思维、文字为己任。双定壮语:Gou yaenx euq doeg a? Gou zaemh mayj taen-roen gaz!汉  语:余岂好辩哉?余不得已也!
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发表于 2007-9-16 10:59:00 |显示全部楼层

是标准壮文表达至少还有字典可查,并以此来规范和统一人们对词汇的认知。久而久之,习惯成自然。

在目前没有相关方言词汇字典出台的前提之下,想让别的方言区的人来摸黑看懂这A FEW人用的某地方言,并不见得比看懂这FEW人用的标准方言的难度要小。原因很简单,别人看不懂想找字典来翻是什么意思都没用机会。

想到就说了。请不要介意。


Mwngz ndei,Dieggagguenj Bouxcuengh Guengjsae(Gvangjsih Bouxcuengh Swcigih)!
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发表于 2007-9-16 17:05:00 |显示全部楼层

不知版主能否提供论坛内某 FEW 人用并设有专版的某地方言字典,供我们或外国友人查询?

我家乡话虽然语音跟标准语、北壮有明显差异,但是写出来的话共性是很大的,多数词语甚至是一样的,不知你是否注意到?当然,我方言中有些词语,或句法标准语中的确没有,我在上文已声明清楚,我想你不会看不到。

看来我用壮语适当拼切构造文中许多壮语根本没有的词语,显然是错误的,是不标准的。我应该直接标出桂柳话拼音,那才是标准的,政府也很满意。

我也是想到就说。希望不要介意。

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-16 17:41:11编辑过]

以还原僚语思维、文字为己任。双定壮语:Gou yaenx euq doeg a? Gou zaemh mayj taen-roen gaz!汉  语:余岂好辩哉?余不得已也!
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发表于 2007-9-16 17:25:00 |显示全部楼层

Thankyou very much for your Excellent translation help!

The Zhuang people will be proud of your wonderful effort.

May you be blessed!

Yours Gratefully, From Joseph.


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发表于 2007-9-16 17:58:00 |显示全部楼层
QUOTE:
以下是引用想家的人在2007-9-16 10:59:00的发言:

是标准壮文表达至少还有字典可查,并以此来规范和统一人们对词汇的认知。久而久之,习惯成自然。

在目前没有相关方言词汇字典出台的前提之下,想让别的方言区的人来摸黑看懂这A FEW人用的某地方言,并不见得比看懂这FEW人用的标准方言的难度要小。原因很简单,别人看不懂想找字典来翻是什么意思都没用机会。

想到就说了。请不要介意。

不知道什么是标准,说某方案标准的人一直自私地维护自己的方言的标准地位。说什么不借汉就不符合他们的对话,他们就看不懂!实际上他们都没有想过我们壮族其他地方习不习惯,懂不懂!我想作为南壮的人大多都难懂官方的标准,而作为标准根据的却极力维护他的汉化方言,说什么不符合他方言作为标准语的他看不懂听不懂!不知道他们想没想过其他方言的人就能听得懂看得懂了吗?自私心理引起壮民族内部不团结!最终你做你的,我做我的,于是德靖壮文出现了!接下来可能还有其他壮文出现了!自私就是这样了!


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发表于 2007-9-16 22:23:00 |显示全部楼层

我说过了,目前还少有看到相关方言词汇字典出来,至少我孤陋寡闻没怎么看到。如果算有的话,2006年泰国玛希隆大学(玛希顿大学)和中国中央民族大学联合编写出版的《壮-汉-泰-英词典》是一个,没记错的话应该用的是马山壮。

现在的《壮汉词汇》及《壮汉英词典》收录的都是以标准壮文书写的壮语固有词及老借词,并没有包括有争议的新借词。你就去这些词典里面找找所谓的桂柳新借词好了,不知道能找到多少。在谈标准壮语文的时候不应当动不动以所谓的桂柳新借词来否定标准壮文值得肯定的地方。

不管怎么说,或者承认不承认,以武鸣音为标准音的标准壮文是目前为止最有代表性的壮语文,在对外宣传及应用上,应该尽量使用标准壮文体系(不包括桂柳新借词)。用壮语适当拼切构造文中许多壮语根本没有的词语我也认为很好。说话不必说反话。

最后,我只想说,明明能用标准壮文书写的壮语固有词及老借词为什么不用?却非要用成还未曾确立书写统一形式的方言词?

用标准壮文的Bae代替Bei,

用标准壮文的Nyied Ngeih(或Ndwen Ngeih)代替Nin Yeih....

用这种统一的标准形式来书写就不可以么,这用不用难道还能同桂柳新借词扯上关系?难道贝侬就办不到么?

你说的外国友人我想他也许并不关心用什么壮语形式,只是想有那么一个形式而已,所以他未必对什么壮语方言词典感兴趣。但这些都不是重要的,重要的是,作为壮族对内的,我们不应该统一观点,在对外宣传及应用上用一个统一的形式么?壮族要想有凝聚力,需要的是书同文!


Mwngz ndei,Dieggagguenj Bouxcuengh Guengjsae(Gvangjsih Bouxcuengh Swcigih)!
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发表于 2007-9-16 23:37:00 |显示全部楼层

看来你并未认真看过我的回复,或者根本就没看。

I am not familiar with the standard Zhuang, so I can only try my best to translate these words into my dialet. If a word is hard to say in Zhuang, I will leave it blank or fill a transliteration from Han that speak in my dialet. And, I will try to expalin my translation in english. Here it is:

不知版主能否提供论坛内某 FEW 人用并设有专版的某地方言字典,供我们或外国友人查询?
我家乡话虽然语音跟标准语、北壮有明显差异,但是写出来的话共性是很大的,多数词语甚至是一样的,不知你是否注意到?当然,我方言中有些词语,或句法标准语中的确没有,我在上文已声明清楚,我想你不会看不到。

第一段回复中,我辛辛苦苦把这些词汇翻译出来,而且很多是新词新译法。你的回复是“不是标准壮文的表达”。虽然我已经在回复中声明“I am not familiar with the standard Zhuang, so I can only try my best to translate these words into my dialet.”但是奇怪的是你显然没看见。从你的回复中可知,你显然是看得懂这英文的。

第二次我回复,同样费了很多心血才把新词拼切得更为合理。而你作为版主不鼓励也就罢了,却说什么“想让别的方言区的人来摸黑看懂这A FEW人用的某地方言……”之类的词句。这盘冷水可真冰凉。这“某地方言”听着怎么这么别扭,应该也可以套到另外的“某地方言”吧。我是不想讲反话,奈何我对这种字眼很“介意”。

外国友人他关心什么我不理会,我只是按照我现有的知识给出翻译,至于人家用来干什么,我并不关心。你说“明明能用标准壮文书写的壮语固有词及老借词为什么不用?却非要用成还未曾确立书写统一形式的方言词?”,而且给出标准壮语的翻译形式,显然你是会的。那为何你不直接翻译出来给他?却在我完成之后放“马后炮”?你这种行为教我如何不心寒?叫我如何“不要介意”?

再者,我并未否定标准壮语值得肯定的地方。若不然,我也会弄个“南壮某方言”特有的方案出来拼写给外国友人。在我看来,语言根本就无所谓正宗或纯种,所以我不会看不起其他方言区。相反倒是我们小方言区的被轻视。小方言区的人也是有尊严的,用不着用这么尖酸的词句来讽刺,否则只能掀起笔战。

我们是需要书同文,我非常赞同。遗憾的是,就在这论坛内都做不到!

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-16 23:38:38编辑过]

以还原僚语思维、文字为己任。双定壮语:Gou yaenx euq doeg a? Gou zaemh mayj taen-roen gaz!汉  语:余岂好辩哉?余不得已也!
http://blog.tayrau.info
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发表于 2007-9-16 23:59:00 |显示全部楼层

很遗憾,我不会。要会的话我早自己翻译了。只不过有些词我是见多了就记住了,这不能说明什么。

我不是在泼凉水,我也不想泼,我更不想笔战。因为有关标准语的争论在家园已经说过多次,我觉得没必要老在旧话重提。

我只是觉得在书写时应该自觉向标准语靠拢(不包括桂柳新借词),就这么个观点。

你要介意我也只能说很遗憾。


Mwngz ndei,Dieggagguenj Bouxcuengh Guengjsae(Gvangjsih Bouxcuengh Swcigih)!
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发表于 2007-9-17 00:28:00 |显示全部楼层
还想补充一个就是,贝侬所说就在这论坛内都做不到书同文指的可是德靖语文版块?作为对同方言区内的交流探讨的一种有效表达的形式也无可厚非,我也不想说是对或是错,当然表达形式上最好能兼容。但是对外部宣传或应用应该尽可能用标准壮文。

Mwngz ndei,Dieggagguenj Bouxcuengh Guengjsae(Gvangjsih Bouxcuengh Swcigih)!
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发表于 2007-9-17 12:49:00 |显示全部楼层

原来是我想要掀起笔战,那真是对不住了。

自觉向标准语靠拢,我也是这么想的。可惜现实总是那么令人遗憾。所以我也很遗憾。

所谓的“对外部宣传或应用应该尽可能用标准壮文”,其中的“外部”不知以什么作为参照。是以这个论坛呢?还是以族群?可惜无论以何种为参照,他人(包括我)在搜索引擎中获得最多的确是某些知名方言的内容,载歌载舞的内容。就连外国流传的一些拼写方案,都不是“对外部宣传或应用应该尽可能用的”标准壮文。这个“标准”已经成为“标志性”的“准”壮语。

这,的确很令人遗憾!

[此贴子已经被作者于2007-9-17 13:39:40编辑过]

以还原僚语思维、文字为己任。双定壮语:Gou yaenx euq doeg a? Gou zaemh mayj taen-roen gaz!汉  语:余岂好辩哉?余不得已也!
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发表于 2007-9-17 13:48:00 |显示全部楼层

我们是志同的贝侬,大家对民族的本心都是好的,只是原来在个人文字理解及表达上有所偏差导致有些误会发生,通过这样的沟通误会解除了,也就没事了,不存在谁对不住谁的问题。

说实话,我家乡的壮语也不是标准语地区的,所以也不是一看标准语就能立通的,特别是由于一些发音和音调的不同,我在刚开始记标准语词时也是不易。但我觉得应该自觉向标准语靠拢,就一直坚持在记单词时用标准壮文。而且《壮汉词汇》、《壮汉英词典》等工具书成果是现成摆在那里的,只要想学的族人都能很方便地找到。遇到问题及时查找,这多好。大家看惯了用标准语书写的词,明白了具体的意思,那交流起来将只会是越来越方便。根本不再需要在各种壮文方案中转换。

我觉得“对外部宣传或应用”都是相对的是整个壮族群体而言,也就是贝侬所说的族群。也就是我们壮族要以同一种文字面孔来示人,这样壮族给外人的感觉才不会是散乱的而是一个实实在在的一体,别人要想学壮文,那怎么学学什么也不言自明,就象老外学汉语学的都是普通话一个道理。标准的意义就在于规范和统一,不然你用你的方案,我用我的方案,各方案之间都是看得似懂非懂,连蒙带猜,这对于强族来说有何用哉?所以凡是要体现壮族的一体性就应该用标准壮文:正式公文应该用标准壮文;向外族乃至外国介绍壮民族应该用标准壮文....

说到外国流传的一些拼写方案,大体都是一些外国人自己对壮语的"研究成果"吧?哪怕国内有这种拼写方案也罢,其实这些都属于个人行为或者说是小范围人的行为,别人也不好说什么,但这正好体现了出现一个标准壮文字体系的重要性,这才能起到中介和统领的作用。记得有人说汉语拼音方案不合理并且也有人搞了自己的一套方案出来,但结果如何?你搞你的,反正国家还在用原有的汉语拼音方案。为什么呢?汉语拼音方案肯定有不完美的地方,但是它已经达到了被编制出来的目的,它已经能正常地毫无障碍地规范和统一人们的拼音的拼、读、写了。

作为对同方言区内的交流探讨的一种有效表达的形式我也真不想说是对或是错,因为这毕竟不是以整个壮族群体出现的,是小范围的,当然我是希望这些方案能在表达形式上与标准壮文最好能兼容,以便长时间使用后,可以被标准壮文合理地加以吸收和借鉴(比如单词),以完善标准壮文的表达,这对于少用桂柳新借词应该说是有好处的。

很令人遗憾的事情的确很多,但我们都不能不去面对。就算是路漫漫其修远,我们也得上下求索啊。现在的成果和条件我们不利用,我们如何再去找一套转换成本更低的?


Mwngz ndei,Dieggagguenj Bouxcuengh Guengjsae(Gvangjsih Bouxcuengh Swcigih)!
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发表于 2007-9-17 23:10:00 |显示全部楼层

原来你是这样理解的!至于所谓的“研究成果”,论坛里面便充斥这些“研究成果”。

不管如何,还剩下几个单词。我还会贴出来,但是很遗憾,我还是只能贴出我的方言。


以还原僚语思维、文字为己任。双定壮语:Gou yaenx euq doeg a? Gou zaemh mayj taen-roen gaz!汉  语:余岂好辩哉?余不得已也!
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发表于 2007-9-17 23:19:00 |显示全部楼层
QUOTE:
以下是引用梁显宁在2007-9-17 23:10:00的发言:

原来你是这样理解的!至于所谓的“研究成果”,论坛里面便充斥这些“研究成果”。

不管如何,还剩下几个单词。我还会贴出来,但是很遗憾,我还是只能贴出我的方言。

贴就贴吧,我要说的都已经说了,别人的个人行为我也表达过我的态度了。任何人都有捍卫自己想法的权利。很遗憾。


Mwngz ndei,Dieggagguenj Bouxcuengh Guengjsae(Gvangjsih Bouxcuengh Swcigih)!
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发表于 2007-9-22 03:31:00 |显示全部楼层
在对外宣传及应用上用一个统一的形式么?壮族要想有凝聚力,需要的是书同文!--想家的人

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