山之凤
发表于 2007-9-28 07:24:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>覃绵文</i>在2007-9-27 13:14:00的发言：</b><br/><p> 在泱泱的覃氏大族当中，覃怀满宗支只是其中的一个宗支，其他各宗支都分别有各个宗支源流，分居地点、入桂时间各异，并非雷同覃怀满宗支，覃怀满南下之时当地早已经有了覃姓，我们称之为＂土著覃＂，在我这里不仅有覃怀满后代和＂土著覃＂还有一种覃姓是覃氏族人在荒野抱养的被遗弃孤儿作义子，义子后代随义父得覃姓，我们称之为＂箩筐覃＂（覃氏族人外出作买卖回家时在荒野发现被遗弃孤儿抱养作义子时用箩筐把人随货挑回家抚养因此得名）．虽然是同一姓，但在处理事情上还有同有异，我们这里规定得比较严格：比如红白喜事及各种大事共理，而坟山和山林不能与共，＂箩筐覃＂的坟山和山林由抱养一族适当割让一小块，绝不能接近本族大坟山，这种情况在民间是实实在在存在的．</p></div><p>不知道你所说的“土著覃”和“箩筐覃”现在主要分布在哪里？他们的族谱又是怎么写的？可否提供点线索。</p>
路
发表于 2007-9-28 13:48:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>覃绵文</i>在2007-9-27 13:14:00的发言：</b><br/><p> 在泱泱的覃氏大族当中，覃怀满宗支只是其中的一个宗支，其他各宗支都分别有各个宗支源流，分居地点、入桂时间各异，并非雷同覃怀满宗支，覃怀满南下之时当地早已经有了覃姓，我们称之为＂土著覃＂，在我这里不仅有覃怀满后代和＂土著覃＂还有一种覃姓是覃氏族人在荒野抱养的被遗弃孤儿作义子，义子后代随义父得覃姓，我们称之为＂箩筐覃＂（覃氏族人外出作买卖回家时在荒野发现被遗弃孤儿抱养作义子时用箩筐把人随货挑回家抚养因此得名）．虽然是同一姓，但在处理事情上还有同有异，我们这里规定得比较严格：比如红白喜事及各种大事共理，而坟山和山林不能与共，＂箩筐覃＂的坟山和山林由抱养一族适当割让一小块，绝不能接近本族大坟山，这种情况在民间是实实在在存在的．</p></div>我奇怪的是，怎么楼主那里族谱说的由元未明初来的覃怀满是谭姓改过来的；我们这里族谱上说的由汉朝（或者明朝末年吧）来的也是由谭姓改过来的？难道以前他们搞串联了？约好了似的。
路
发表于 2007-9-28 22:17:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>覃绵文</i>在2007-9-25 13:52:00的发言：</b><br/><p>看来你真是一个孤陋寡闻之辈,我还真非得把一段县志录下让开开眼界不可了,看后还是不信的话,自己就去翻翻看吧.</p><p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"> 广西《上林县志》中的</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">“</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">民族志</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">”</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">记载：覃三耀（又名覃怀满，亦作山耀、三孝），生于元至</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">J</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">帧二年（</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">1331</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">年），原籍山东青州府益都县。为起义军首领覃景山之子。覃景山去世后，三耀继承父志，高举义旗，继续聚众起义，称</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">“</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">天下兵马大元帅</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">”</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">，带了一支覃家军随明将廖永忠征南，明洪武元年（</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">1368</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">年），白海路经福州、潮州，再取东莞、梧州、浔州、邕州、宾阳，后移宜州德胜司入东兰。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;"><br/><br/></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">由于韦天珍、覃怀满平乱有功，明朝廷授韦天珍为东兰州世袭知州，覃怀满为世袭武官，留戍东兰州，落籍于都彝哨（今广西东兰县大同乡那雅村）。韦氏土司实行军政合一的封建领主世袭制，土司除了直接占有和经营部分土地外，按哨封给韦氏宗族和覃、黄、龙等姓官兵。这支覃家军又分出一支继续进军西藏，为明朝统一边疆立下汗马功劳，后来落籍盐井（今西藏自治区盐井县）。据四川省大足县的人说，近邻四川省的西藏自治区边境还有覃氏居民。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;"><br/><br/></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">覃怀满在东兰生真贤（维昭）、真圣（维真）、真仁（维彦）三子，后裔繁衍黔、滇、桂</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">20</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">多个县及越南同登、谅山、高平等地，人数有上百万。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">1990</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">年出版的河南省《浚县志》记载，该县</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">100</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">人至</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">1000</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">人的姓氏有覃、毛、程、友、齐、霍、侥等。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">1993</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">年出版的河南省《武陟县志》记载该县的姓氏有</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">……</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">简、覃、靖、蒯、蒿、福、熊、雏、裴、谭</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">……</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">等</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">414</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">个。浚县屯子乡席营村《覃氏族谱》记载，明代初年，覃家子弟兵随反对元朝的起义军南征，南方平定后，又北上。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;"><br/><br/></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">一同征战的还有席姓和张姓的兵，打到大名后，回故土落籍，</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;"><br/> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">因为席姓先到，所以当地就叫席营村（距前文所述的古白马县白马坡</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">10</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">多公里），朝廷将</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">300</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">亩耕地，另</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">3</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">亩</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">4</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-ascii-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">分坟场地赏给覃大义等有功人员，世代免纳粮，这个待遇，到解放前还为历代政府所承认。明代，覃氏中出现不少人才，其中较著名者有覃应元，字德芳，四川云阳县人，明嘉靖进士，知河南府。他以德感召下属及群众，平息匪乱，整肃地方治安，政绩突出，升任四川副使。</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;"><br/><br style="mso-special-character: line-break;"/><br style="mso-special-character: line-break;"/></span></p><p></p></div><div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>季人</i>在2007-9-25 14:35:00的发言：</b><br/><p>《明史·广西土司列传》记载：</p><p>东兰州，在府城西南四百二十里。宋时有韦君朝者，居文兰峒为蛮长，传子宴闹。崇宁五年内附，因置兰州，以宴闹知州事，俾世其官。元改为东兰州，韦氏世袭如故。洪武十二年，土官韦富挠遣家人韦钱保诣阙，上元所授印，贡方物。钱保匿富挠名，以己名上，因以钱保知东兰州。既而钱保征敛暴急，民不堪命，拥富挠作乱。广西都司讨平之，执钱保正其罪，仍以其地归韦氏。</p><p>由此可见，自宋代起韦君朝及其后代就世袭为土官，明初的东兰土司是韦富挠。并没有“韦天珍平乱有功得授东兰知州”一说。</p><p>清乾隆九年，东兰土知州同知韦绍庶在奏章中列举韦氏族谱：自明一世祖韦富挠始，历代土知州有韦万目、韦质、韦济民、韦爵、韦玩、韦兴宗、韦祖鋐、韦正宝、韦虎臣、韦起云、韦应龙……等，就是没有“韦天珍”这个人。</p></div><p>唉，说自己去平乱就好了，干嘛还非拉上一个韦家的人呢？结果好了吧，韦家的人在你平乱前早就在东兰当了不知N年的土司了，而且查来查去，就是查不到韦天珍此人，马脚一下露出来了吧。</p><p></p>
山魂
发表于 2007-10-4 21:59:00
<p>各取所需，求同存异。</p>
大刀阔斧1
发表于 2007-10-5 14:10:00
<p>历史问题和家谱一下子很难说得清，相信总有搞清楚的那么一天。</p><p>大家各自保留自己的观点好了。据我所知，相信自己的家谱，这在壮族人中占有很大的比例.</p>
好好瑟
发表于 2007-10-11 15:30:00
讨论这些族源问题有时候真的很可笑!但是又不知道可笑在什么地方....笑自己还是别人??
luomaren
发表于 2007-10-13 00:29:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>越色僚人</i>在2007-9-25 14:18:00的发言：</b><br/><font size="3">当代的县志，是每个县政府的县志办的工作人员编纂的，而这些工作人员大都是没有经过史学、民族学等专业培训的，本身就称不上学术界的人，其学术修养不见得比广西民族研究院研究员等专家高，更何况县志里许多关于人物的传记很多都是依据民间漏洞百出的家谱族谱来编纂，其结论是否完全可信也就可想而知了。反观历史上历代府州县的地方志书，反而没有象现代当代的县志那样轻易的相信土官以及民间的家谱族谱声称他们的祖先是北来的，而是依据正史的记载来对这些家谱族谱提出质疑，反而比现代当代的县志严谨多了。</font></div><p></p>这话不假，看了96年版的《东兰县志》中的民族分布一节，其中也是写着什么据民间族谱记载......壮族韦、*、*、......等姓自山东益都迁移过来的。这种水平也只能是照葫芦画瓢而已了！千万不要说成自火星过来就很好了。
luomaren
发表于 2007-10-13 00:45:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>阴暗面</i>在2007-9-25 22:31:00的发言：</b><br/><p>如果覃景山一族真的是来自于广东惠州地区，那么壮族的覃景山后裔倒有可能真的是古代汉族后裔。潮汕地区很早就是汉族地区了。</p></div><p></p><p>惠州是客家聚居地,和潮汕地区只是挨边而已.如果真是如此,看来客家人在清代不光群殴广府人,还群殴潮汕人,同时两线作战,这个题目应该赶快抓紧写,免得被人抢去先机了......</p><p>广东那边的报章还有这样报道客家人的族源,客家人是岭南原著民,后来迁移北上中原,然后又迁回广东,与之前的中原迁移岭南说又有差别,而且发现的与越人有关的古代遗址的一律不会点明,除非与广府人有关才触及一下,这个就十分奥妙了,让人很难得的糊涂了起来.</p>
luomaren
发表于 2007-10-13 00:56:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>路</i>在2007-9-28 13:48:00的发言：</b><br/>我奇怪的是，怎么楼主那里族谱说的由元未明初来的覃怀满是谭姓改过来的；我们这里族谱上说的由汉朝（或者明朝末年吧）来的也是由谭姓改过来的？难道以前他们搞串联了？约好了似的。</div><p></p>这个确实有,而且还有人组织去山东寻找传说中的白马县,可惜无功而返......不老实当土著，非要象阿Q一样自欺欺人意淫一番。
luomaren
发表于 2007-10-13 01:07:00
我遇上过汉族的同姓，问我是哪一支的，我要是知道我会说的，可是这么重要的事情家里的长辈却从未提起过，没有就是没有，叫我如何编来，除非瞎编。而且我的家乡流行上门，我的堂兄弟啊侄子啊好几个都是上门女婿，这个很正常，而且不存在歧视一说，而且如果想让后代子女改随夫姓，那就是找不自在了，可以不夸张的说，中国想要真正的男女平等，应该向这里的壮族人民学习才行。这样的榜样怎么就没有报纸来宏扬一下呢？还是宣传部门的封建遗毒没有真正消灭吧？
五色糯米饭
发表于 2007-10-13 01:20:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>luomaren</i>在2007-10-13 1:07:00的发言：</b><br/>我遇上过汉族的同姓，问我是哪一支的，我要是知道我会说的，可是这么重要的事情家里的长辈却从未提起过，没有就是没有，叫我如何编来，除非瞎编。而且我的家乡流行上门，我的堂兄弟啊侄子啊好几个都是上门女婿，这个很正常，而且不存在歧视一说，而且如果想让后代子女改随夫姓，那就是找不自在了，<font color="#e61abd">可以不夸张的说，中国想要真正的男女平等，应该向这里的壮族人民学习才行。这样的榜样怎么就没有报纸来宏扬一下呢？还是宣传部门的封建遗毒没有真正消灭吧？</font></div><p>说出我的心里话了.呵呵.不是他们的封建思想,而是他们的汉族正统思想在作怪.</p>
五色糯米饭
发表于 2007-10-13 01:23:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>luomaren</i>在2007-10-13 0:56:00的发言：</b><br/><p></p>这个确实有,而且还有人组织去山东寻找传说中的白马县,可惜无功而返......<font color="#f709c7">不老实当土著，非要象阿Q一样自欺欺人意淫一番。</font></div><p>这个我觉得不应该去责怪他们,要怪就怪现在的教育,我们的历史不进课堂才造成了这些糊涂事的出现.</p>
无非今生
发表于 2007-10-21 19:10:00
<p>我也姓覃,我是南方壮族土著,山东离我那么远,讲话还带卷舌,肯定跟我没关系</p>
阿乱
发表于 2007-10-23 13:24:00
<p>覃姓如何？非覃姓又如何？</p><p>重要的是真正的认识自己。</p><p>摆祖先（未免真实）的事，未免让人觉得有点阿Q的嫌疑哦。</p><p></p>