使君子 发表于 2009-12-1 22:27:00

《说文解字》“东南西北”四汉字的原义

<div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; line-height: 21px; "><p class="zdct0" title="" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 16px; ">【卷六】【<span style="font-family: MingLiU-ExtB; ">&#144309;</span>部】<span class="kszi">南</span></p><hr class="dichr" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(175, 154, 135); padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; width: 1004px; clear: both; "/><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/5357.gif" class="swxz" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; float: left; " alt=""/><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; ">艸木至南方,有枝任也。从<span style="font-family: MingLiU-ExtB; ">&#144309;</span><span style="font-family: MingLiU-ExtB; ">&#139657;</span>聲。<span style="font-family: MingLiU-ExtB; ">&#138518;</span>,古文。那含切〖注〗又<span style="font-family: MingLiU-ExtB; ">&#138527;</span>,亦古文南。 文六 重一</p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; "><p class="zdct0" title="" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 16px; ">【卷八】【北部】<span class="kszi">北</span></p><hr class="dichr" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(175, 154, 135); padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; width: 1004px; clear: both; "/><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/5317.gif" class="swxz" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; float: left; " alt=""/><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><span style="font-family: MingLiU-ExtB; ">&#158595;</span>也。从二人相背。凡北之屬皆从北。博墨切</p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><br/></p><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21px; "><p class="zdct0" title="" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 16px; ">【卷十二】【西部】<span class="kszi">西</span></p><hr class="dichr" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(175, 154, 135); padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; width: 1004px; clear: both; "/><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/897F.gif" class="swxz" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; float: left; " alt=""/><p class="zdct2" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; ">鳥在巢上。象形。日在西方而鳥棲,故因以爲東西之西。凡西之屬皆从西。棲,西或从木妻。卥,古文西。卤,籒文西。先稽切</p></span></p></span></p></span></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, Arial; line-height: 21px; "><div class="swjs1"><h3 style="margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif, ''; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); line-height: 24px; font-size: 1em; clear: both; ">清代陳昌治刻本『說文解字』</h3><hr class="dichr" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(175, 154, 135); padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; width: 1004px; clear: both; "/><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/4E1C.gif" class="swxz" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; float: left; " alt=""/><p title="" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; ">【卷六】【東部】<span class="kszi">東</span></p><p class="zdct5" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; ">動也。从木。官溥說:从日在木中。凡東之屬皆从東。得紅切</p></div><div class="swjs2"><h3 style="margin-top: 5px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif, ''; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); line-height: 24px; font-size: 1em; clear: both; ">清代段玉裁『說文解字注』</h3><hr class="dichr" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(175, 154, 135); padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; width: 1004px; clear: both; "/><p class="zdct5" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><span class="jieshi" style="font-weight: bold; ">動也。</span>見漢律曆志。<span class="jieshi" style="font-weight: bold; ">從木。官溥說。從日在木中。</span>木、榑木也。日在木中曰東。在木上曰杲。在木下曰杳。得紅切。九部。<span class="jieshi" style="font-weight: bold; ">凡東之屬皆從東。</span></p><p class="zdct5" style="line-height: 26px; margin-top: 4px; margin-right: 4px; margin-bottom: 4px; margin-left: 4px; font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; "><b><br/></b></p></div></span></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div>

称最 发表于 2009-12-1 23:06:00

<p>古音来历:<br/></p><div class="spctrl"></div><p>  古代的“我”一直读ngai音,在客家话完整保存了下来。现在北方很多地方声母仍读作ng,(例如陕西话读nge,看过武林外传的都知道)便是明证。“俺”本来是“我”字的衍生,读ngan,在老派山东话里还是这个音。后来因为普通话里没有ng声母,变成了an。---baidu<br/></p><p><strong>问一下楼主:“我”是五可切,“俺”是什么切?</strong></p><p><strong>五可切怎么会是ngai 呢?</strong></p><br/><br/>
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-12-1 23:10:03编辑过]

kiegn 发表于 2009-12-2 00:43:00

<p>话说汉字的切音是向音节的分解迈出了一步,但还是用汉字来注音,如果刚好用来切音的两个字不认得,那不是白搭了?</p>

越敢壮 发表于 2009-12-2 12:32:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>称最</i>在2009-12-2 5:00:35的发言:</b><br/><div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>kiegn</i>在2009-12-2 0:43:32的发言:</b><br/><p>话说汉字的切音是向音节的分解迈出了一步,但还是用汉字来注音,如果刚好用来切音的两个字不认得,那不是白搭了?</p></div><p>我也有这一疑问</p><p>据说以口头相传的雅言正音为准,但有时侯还是要辩正音,,洛阳为准?洛阳音不曾变过?</p><br/><div align="right"><font color="#808080">[此贴子已经被作者于2009-12-2 5:04:19编辑过]</font></div></div><p>这种注音应该是比较学术范畴的,为我们今人保留了古代的读音。</p><p>至于古代的学生,还是应该按各自的方言来学习、读字吧!</p>

称最 发表于 2009-12-2 05:00:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>kiegn</i>在2009-12-2 0:43:32的发言:</b><br/><p>话说汉字的切音是向音节的分解迈出了一步,但还是用汉字来注音,如果刚好用来切音的两个字不认得,那不是白搭了?</p></div><p>我也有这一疑问</p><p>据说以口头相传的雅言正音为准,但有时侯还是要辩正音,,洛阳为准?洛阳音不曾变过?</p>
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-12-2 5:04:19编辑过]

使君子 发表于 2009-12-2 15:14:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>称最</i>在2009-12-1 23:06:24的发言:</b><br/><p>古音来历:<br/></p><div class="spctrl"></div><p>  古代的“我”一直读ngai音,在客家话完整保存了下来。现在北方很多地方声母仍读作ng,(例如陕西话读nge,看过武林外传的都知道)便是明证。“俺”本来是“我”字的衍生,读ngan,在老派山东话里还是这个音。后来因为普通话里没有ng声母,变成了an。---baidu<br/></p><p><strong>问一下楼主:“我”是五可切,“俺”是什么切?</strong></p><p><strong>五可切怎么会是ngai 呢?</strong></p></div><p></p><br/><div>百度百科很多都不可信的,因为客家山佬最爱幻想,他们经常去涂改百科。</div><div><br/></div><div>客家话存不存古我不知道,客家话又分好多种,但我就知道,被推举为“标准音”的梅县话,很多发音都接近白话,而且也有很多发音接近官话。客家族群是汉化最晚的土著族群,但同时又是崇汉崇北意识最顽固的族群,僚人家园里好几个皇汉都是客家的,所以我在现实生活中从来不与客家朋友谈及族群人种的问题,避免有损和气。</div><div><br/></div><div>“俺”字是“于业”切。</div><div><br/></div><div>广州话“五”读ng,“可”读ho。广州话“我”也有两种读法,一种是ngo,一种是o。通常认为o是“懒音”。</div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div>

kiegn 发表于 2009-12-2 18:46:00

<p>baih ndit oeg日出边;东</p><p>baih ndit dok日落边;西</p><p>baih gvaz ndit日之右;北 baihgwnz上边;北边</p><p>baih soeix ndit日之左;南 baihlaz下边;南边 </p><p>坎兰拼音:paiditco东 paidittor西 paikuardit北 paisoydit南</p>

使君子 发表于 2009-12-2 15:26:00

<div>发这个贴的目的,不是为了讨论古汉语的“正音”,而是讨论关于方位词的建立起源。</div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div>“<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 宋体; font-size: 24px; line-height: 26px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Simsun; font-size: medium; line-height: normal; "><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/4E1C.gif" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看"/>”,旭日在草木中升起,该方向为东。</span></span></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div>“<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: mingliu-extb; font-size: 24px; line-height: 26px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Simsun; font-size: medium; line-height: normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px; "><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/5357.gif" class="swxz" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看" style="word-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; cursor: pointer; "/></span>”,草木在山的那一端生长茂盛,该方向为南。</span></span></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div>“<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px; "><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/897F.gif" class="swxz" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看" style="word-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; cursor: pointer; "/><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Simsun; font-size: medium; line-height: normal; ">”,日落,神鸟归于巢,该方向为西。</span></span></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div>“<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, arial; font-size: 12px; line-height: 21px; "><img src="http://www.zdic.net/pic/zy/xz/5317.gif" class="swxz" alt="图片点击可在新窗口打开查看" style="word-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all; border-top-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; cursor: pointer; "/><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Simsun; font-size: medium; line-height: normal; ">”,二人相背,表反叛顶撞之意,表南方的反方向北。</span></span></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div>从这个思维出发,如古代神话之类,我认为壮语也可以建立起自己的方位词。</div><div></div>

特浪 发表于 2009-12-2 19:26:00

<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>使君子</i>在2009-12-2 15:14:41的发言:</b><br/><div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><strong></strong></div><p></p><br/><div>百度百科很多都不可信的,因为客家山佬最爱幻想,他们经常去涂改百科。</div><div><br/></div><div>客家话存不存古我不知道,客家话又分好多种,但我就知道,被推举为“标准音”的梅县话,很多发音都接近白话,而且也有很多发音接近官话。客家族群是汉化最晚的土著族群,但同时又是崇汉崇北意识最顽固的族群,僚人家园里好几个皇汉都是客家的,所以我在现实生活中从来不与客家朋友谈及族群人种的问题,避免有损和气。</div><div><br/></div><div>“俺”字是“于业”切。</div><div><br/></div><div>广州话“五”读ng,“可”读ho。广州话“我”也有两种读法,一种是ngo,一种是o。通常认为o是“懒音”。</div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div></div><p>用广州话和桂柳话都能“切”对“我”的读音,反而现在的是普通话“切”不准。</p>

伤疤好咯 发表于 2009-12-2 21:03:00

回复:(使君子)[size=3]发这个贴的目的,不是为了讨...

“南”字形源于编钟的形状,上部像系绳,下部像钟身。古字中有“南支”字,即手持槌击钟形。<br/><div class="spctrl"></div><p>  许慎认为是“从木,羊声”,实际甲骨文、金文并非如此。<br/></p><p>百度里这样说.我觉得并不是什么太阳在草丛中,而是指编钟挂在系绳下,意即指"下方",表示"南"的方位.而"北"呢,从字形上看,不是两个人的背相对,而是象是王的坐姿的背面,正是"北"方.</p>.
[此贴子已经被作者于2009-12-2 21:10:01编辑过]

伤疤好咯 发表于 2009-12-2 21:11:00

"王"端坐在王位上,从后面看,就是这个图形,引为"北面"

使君子 发表于 2009-12-4 21:58:00

思维最好再发散一下。比如,在壮族聚居地的北方、南方,有没有什么本族神话传说中的人物事?

使君子 发表于 2009-12-4 22:00:00

又比如,以邕宁本地的比侬为例,他们有没有什么特定的词语用于称呼北边或南边的比侬?

使君子 发表于 2009-12-10 16:32:00

德语里面有趣的方位词构造思维

<div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div><a href="http://dict.leo.org/chde?lp=chde&amp;p=8x2MgA&amp;search=Morgenland">http://dict.leo.org/chde?lp=chde&amp;p=8x2MgA&amp;search=Morgenland</a></div><div><br/></div><div><br/></div><div>德语将“东土”称作Morgenland(晨之壤),“西域”称作Abendland(夜之壤)。</div>
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查看完整版本: 《说文解字》“东南西北”四汉字的原义