泰语初学者的有趣思维及驳南乡子谬论（上）
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span><p></p></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">泰语初学者的有趣思维及驳南乡子谬论(上)<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><p> </p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 30pt; mso-char-indent-count: 2.0;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">近来自学泰语，破多感想，先奉献一贴，聊博众贝侬一笑，或供众贝侬讨伐。<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 30pt; mso-char-indent-count: 2.0;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">此贴先和历史扯上点关系。<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">下在姓韦，结合泰语的学习，先来一个韦姓起源改进版，不足为凭，只望获众贝侬一乐。<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">壮族创世史诗《布洛陀》对许多姓氏称谓的原义有解释，据其叙述，韦原是主持分姓的卜黄分给一个讨厌的迟到者的丑姓<span lang="EN-US">——</span>男性<a name="baidusnap1"></a><span style="COLOR: black;">生殖器</span>，这个<span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black;"><a href="http://www.officebank.cn/xinxi1/3732/"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none;"><span lang="EN-US">人</span></span></a></span>愿意改正不好的陋习，众<span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black;"><a href="http://www.officebank.cn/xinxi1/3732/"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none;"><span lang="EN-US">人</span></span></a></span>劝卜黄给他一个<span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black;"><a href="http://www.officebank.cn/xinxi1/2310/"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none;"><span lang="EN-US">美</span></span></a></span>姓，才改成无贬义的<span lang="EN-US">“</span>韦<span lang="EN-US">”</span>。男性<span style="COLOR: black;">生殖器</span>是原始性崇拜的对象，在原初的观念中并不为丑。但史书所叙述<span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black;"><a href="http://www.officebank.cn/xinxi1/3732/"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none;"><span lang="EN-US">人</span></span></a></span>们却视此为丑姓，本族族<span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black;"><a href="http://www.officebank.cn/xinxi1/3732/"><span lang="EN-US" style="COLOR: black; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none;"><span lang="EN-US">人</span></span></a></span>也不喜欢，可见那种原始观念已淡化……（壮语中，男性生殖器的读音与“韦”近似。）</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><p></p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">泰语“快，很快”是</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体;">ไวไว</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体;">ไวไว</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">，读音近于“韦韦”。想来壮泰族先民古越人要表达“快”时，都这么说的，呵呵。于是我有改进版，省得那故事看了不爽。新版本如下：<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">一日，卜黄分封姓氏。有个讨厌的家伙可能平时拖拉习惯了（前不久我与贝侬黄军—僚商版主——约会，我因为某种原因大迟其到，估计要是卜黄再度封姓，我很可能又得一个生殖器），来到现场时黄花菜都凉了，但仁慈的卜黄并不恼怒，时间就是生命，以后办事要准时！目下生产力低下，抓个野兔驱狼赶豹的都不容易，你办事总慢三拍，如何得了。为了警戒，督促你以后办事要</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体;">ไวไว</span><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体;">ไวไว</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">，就给你个“韦”姓吧。<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">从此以后，韦氏子孙办事贼麻溜，族群终于得兴。（僚版主<personname wst="on" productid="黄军">黄军</personname>先生看了这句莫骂人啊。）<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 21.75pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;"><p> </p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">第二个话题也是我臆想，严肃话题留作第三个。<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">这个话题和越人英雄</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">勾践有关。这位英雄的姓、名到底是什么意思？一直难倒众生。容在下用壮泰语破译之。（再次提醒：没有任何考据，纯属虚构。）<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">先说英雄的姓。<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">《国语<span lang="EN-US">·</span>吴语》中韦昭注曰：<span lang="EN-US">“</span>勾践，祝融之后，允常之子，芈姓也。<span lang="EN-US">” </span>战国时史官所编的《世本》，则直言：<span lang="EN-US">“</span>越为芈姓，与楚同祖。<span lang="EN-US">”<p></p></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 29.25pt; mso-char-indent-count: 1.95;"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">芈，音“米”。越王为什么是姓“芈”？我想，芈姓本来是个汉姓，越王并无此姓，乃是汉史假借发音。因为壮泰语出现率最高的词汇之一当为“有”，即</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">，相当于英文之<span lang="EN-US">HAVE</span>”。</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体;">มี</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH;">之发音，与</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">芈、米同，而这个词在古越语里可能出现频率最高，在汉人听来，这是个标志性的越语词汇，所以就出现了“越为芈姓”的历史。（若来板砖，我甘愿流血。）<span lang="EN-US"><p></p></span></span></p><p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;"> 那“勾践”是什么意思？我想，这太好理解了。</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">ก้</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">念“哥”，在泰语里是“都，也，就”等意思，在壮语里也是一样的。但今天，在北壮里，“也”通常是</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">ห่า</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">（泰语拼法表示，即<span lang="EN-US">HA</span>的</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">่ </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">音—<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">—中音，）但是，</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">ก้</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">的说法仍然残留，比如，北壮说“都行”、“也<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">行”，就说是“</span><span lang="TH" style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Angsana New"; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-ascii-font-family: 宋体; mso-hansi-font-family: 宋体; mso-fareast-font-family: 宋体;">ห่า<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>ได </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">”（泰语拼读）。勾，就是这个“都，也，就”<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">壮泰语发音。那“践”呢？“践”就是壮语单词“墙”的发音。<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">有多多的墙，可是我们大王的一个梦想哪！大王“文身断发，披<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">草为邑”，建设家国的进展很快。我们的栏杆房住得倒是挺爽，<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">但大王一看，光有这个不行啊，瞧瞧中原春秋各霸，当下正大兴<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">坚城深池和修建长城，个个固若金汤，我有勃勃雄心，要强军兴<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">邦，要称雄中原当盟主，不建立多多的长墙怎么行？我也要大越<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">国都是墙，都是池，都是高墙深池！谁也打不破，我再出击，前<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">进，称霸！所以我名字就叫<font size="5">“</font></span><font size="5"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">勾践</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">”，都是墙！都是战壕！（板砖<span style="FONT-SIZE: 15pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Angsana New'; mso-bidi-language: TH; mso-font-kerning: 1.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN;">也许已经如雨点而下。）</span></span></font></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-8-27 21:44:17编辑过] <span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">“芈”</span>意思！ <p>还是很难学的。。学习得不到规范指导</p> <p>其实姓韦原来不是姓韦</p><p>是姓戴</p><p>古代战争姓戴的士兵比较勇猛</p><p>每次都视死如归</p><p>后来民间流传一话</p><p>流传到“卜黄”那里去了</p><p>于是“卜黄”把姓戴改成韦</p><p>以表彰姓戴的英勇</p><p>这句话是“戴当韦”</p><p>（纯属娱乐，如有雷同，实属巧合）</p><p> </p> <p>代哭泣的壮族人发帖,文中包含的泰文字符可能和网页编码不一致,用图片把文字发上来了</p><p> <br/></p><p> </p><br/> "芈"乃楚国大姓.有人研究,楚语跟南方壮语有很多相通之处,而与中原差别巨大.(听说的,好象出自<楚国史>) <p>“戴当韦”</p><p> 听说过！</p><p><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 宋体;">“芈”</span>意思！</p> <div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>布楼</i>在2007-8-27 22:26:00的发言：</b><br/><p>其实姓韦原来不是姓韦</p><p>是姓戴</p><p>古代战争姓戴的士兵比较勇猛</p><p>每次都视死如归</p><p>后来民间流传一话</p><p>流传到“卜黄”那里去了</p><p>于是“卜黄”把姓戴改成韦</p><p>以表彰姓戴的英勇</p><p>这句话是“戴当韦”</p><p>（纯属娱乐，如有雷同，实属巧合）</p><p> </p></div><p>“戴当韦”好像这是个不文明的语言。 </p><p> </p> 呵，南乡子的理论本来就是没有理由站得住脚的，现在又有这篇让他解释不来的文章嘛，他能只能用嘴来否定了，因为他根本没能找到实在的理由来反驳的。 “戴当韦”。 <p>我也不管了，“戴当韦”！</p> <div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>萧萧瑟瑟</i>在2007-8-28 8:59:00的发言：</b><br/><p>“戴当韦”好像这是个不文明的语言。 </p><p> </p></div><p></p><p>你不要误导不懂壮语的同学好不好</p><p>“戴当韦”是说很英勇</p><p>死也不怕</p><p>伟很大</p><p></p>
[此贴子已经被作者于2007-8-29 22:10:50编辑过] <p></p><p>死当卵！</p><p></p><p>就是汉语的＂视死如归，二十年后仍是一条好汉＂之类的！</p> <p>问楼主：允常，阖闾，夫差又有什么新解？</p> dai daengz veiz! 非常支持贝侬学泰语。但对于拿祖辈来开玩笑非常反感，在我家乡，对祖先非常尊敬，谁敢拿姓氏开玩笑，除非他不想要命了。 其实很好办，DNA普查而不是用偏僻农村不是十几代的纯种壮族 <p>开玩笑，真的要普查壮族DNA，不用偏僻农村用什么？</p><p></p>
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