北姑
发表于 2006-9-16 09:14:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>路</i>在2006-9-15 19:48:00的发言：</b><br/><p>强烈期待北姑出示证据。</p></div><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.viettouch.com/pre-hist/dongson_drums.html">http://www.viettouch.com/pre-hist/dongson_drums.html</a></p><p><strong><font color="#000080">M</font></strong>any bronze drums of the Dong Son period have been reported in South and Southwest China, Burma, Thailand, Laos and Indonesia. In Viet Nam, approximately 140 drums were discovered in many locations throughout Viet Nam from the high land region of the north to the plains of the south and as far as to the Phu Quoc island. <!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment--><!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment--><br/>Scholars have traditionally traced its bronze-casting technology to northern China. This theory was based on the assumption that bronze casting in eastern Asia originated in northern China; however, this idea has been discredited by archaeological discoveries in north-eastern Thailand in the 1970's. In the words of one scholar, "bronze casting began in Southeast Asia and was later borrowed by the Chinese, not vice versa as the Chinese scholars have always claimed". Such interpretation is supported by the work of modern Vietnamese archaeologists. They have found that the earliest bronze drums of Dong Son are closely related in basic structural features and in decorative design to the pottery of the Phung Nguyen culture. <br/><br/>It is still uncertain whether the bronze drums were made for religious ceremonies, to rally men for war, or for another secular role. Most of the bronze drums were made in Viet Nam and South China but they were traded to the south and west such as Java and Bali islands, and were valued by people with very different cultures. The Dong Son bronze drums exhibit the advanced techniques and the great skill in the <a href="http://www.viettouch.com/pre-hist/dongson_casting.html">lost-wax casting</a> of large objects, the Co Loa drum would have required the smelting of between 1 and 7 tons of copper ore and the use of up to 10 large castings crucibles at one time. <!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment--><br/><br/><!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment-->Most scholars agree the Dong Son drums display an artistic level reaching perfection that few cultures of the time could rival. The Dong Son drums, especially the early ones, were decorated with very rich and well composed images of objects, humans and animals. These images together provided a lively description of the Dong Son society, its people, their daily chores as well as their spiritual life and ceremonial activities. </p><p><img height="414" src="http://www.viettouch.com/pre-hist/ds4Bar.jpg" width="189" align="bottom" naturalsizeflag="3" alt=""/></p><p>The decorative images on the tympanum follow a common pattern: at the center is a star encircled by concentric panels of human or animal scenes interspersed with bands of geometric motifs. Birds, deers, buffaloes and hornbills were depicted. Historians have identified the connection between Van Lang and the word vlang (or blang), a large bird in the Austro-Asiatic Viet language. Furthermore, the Hung kings also chose a heron, an aquatic bird, as the totem of Van Lang. <br/></p><p><img height="163" src="http://www.viettouch.com/pre-hist/ani2.jpg" width="163" align="left" border="0" alt=""/></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The decorative images on the tympanum follow a common pattern: at the center is a star encircled by concentric panels of human or animal scenes interspersed with bands of geometric motifs. Birds, deers, buffaloes and hornbills were depicted. Historians have identified the connection between Van Lang and the word vlang (or blang), a large bird in the Austro-Asiatic Viet language. Furthermore, the Hung kings also chose a heron, an aquatic bird, as the totem of Van Lang. <br/><br/><img height="163" src="http://www.viettouch.com/pre-hist/ani2.jpg" width="163" align="left" border="0" alt=""/> The Dong Son society was an agricultural one based on the wet rice cultivation. The images on of the Dong Son drums vividly described the activities associated with rice production such as people carrying plows, buffaloes and oxen working the fields and farmers milling rice with hand pestles. <br/><br/><!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment--><br/>Water rituals were well depicted on the face and body of the drums. Scenes of boat race are believed to represent village festivals to celebrate the supreme role of water in agriculture. Images of Dong Son warriors and their weapons are found carved on many drums. Many types of weapon were represented: cross-bow, javelin, hatchet, spear, dagger and body shield. These images confirm the historical setting of the Dong Son time as its people was in constant fighting for survival against the people from the North. <br/><br/><!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment-->Social events were well depicted on the drums through images of dancers, musicians and musical instruments. There were bronze drums, bells, castanets, the senhs (rattlers made of bamboo cylinders taped to the arm or leg to make sound when dancing) and the khens (instruments with 4 to 6 long pipes attached to a resonance box). On the Ngoc Lu and Hoang Ha drums, images of Dong Son people sit in line on the floor beating the bronze drums with drumsticks. Dancers in ceremonial garments processing in a counter clockwise direction, each dancer holding an instrument or a weapon with one hand while the other hand forms some sort of rhythmic gesture. <!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment--><br/><br/><br/><br/><i><font color="#005090"><b>M</b></font>inh Bui</i>
<br/><font size="1"><b>References: </b><i><br/>Lich Su Viet Nam, Phan Huy Le <br/>The Birth of Viet Nam, Keith Taylor, 1988 <br/>The Bronze Drums of Dong Son, Nguyen van Huyen et al.. , 1989 </i></font><!--Element not supported - Type: 8 Name: #comment--></p>
北姑
发表于 2006-9-16 09:16:00
銅鼓文化發源於紅河三角洲的東山文化，並向廣西、雲南、老撾及沿海等散播那。<br/>
路
发表于 2006-9-16 15:46:00
不知东山文出土的铜鼓是什么类型？
季人
发表于 2006-9-18 10:35:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>北姑</i>在2006-9-16 9:16:00的发言：</b><br/>銅鼓文化發源於紅河三角洲的東山文化，並向廣西、雲南、老撾及沿海等散播那。<br/></div><p></p>铜鼓起源于越南的说法早就被新的出土证据（如云南石寨山铜鼓）否定。<br/>东山铜鼓从形制上来看已经是铜鼓发展较为成熟的产物，并不具备铜鼓起源时期的原始形态。
季人
发表于 2006-9-18 10:46:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>路</i>在2006-9-16 15:46:00的发言：</b><br/>不知东山文出土的铜鼓是什么类型？</div><p>东山系铜鼓在越南发现很多，在广西、泰国、马来西亚、印度尼西亚也广泛存在，从分布中心来看， 也可称为越南系。在拥有复数面纹带的大型铜鼓上，可以清楚地看到这两个系统的特征。在鼓面写实性题材的纹饰分布上， 东山系内侧拥有乐舞纹，外侧拥有翔鹭纹的较多。几何纹在东山系是由细长的三角形组成的锯齿纹和被认为是由此转化而来的栉纹为一般特点。东山系几何纹样种类较多，且按照一般规则排列。 </p><p></p>
c636
发表于 2008-4-8 20:08:00
<div class="msgheader">QUOTE:</div><div class="msgborder"><b>以下是引用<i>沙南曼森</i>在2002-12-9 23:58:00的发言：</b><br/>“海”这个概念，在僚语各方言中好像都没有专门的特有的词，估计都是借用汉语词“hai”。而泰语的“海”为thale（二音节），跟“hai”没有联系，据说倒跟蒙古语的“海”有点相似。 <p>这“海”的发音和概念，到底是汉人借越人的，还是越人借汉人的？太久远了，真的很难搞清。难道，都是借自东夷人的？</p>那"岛"这个概念有没有相应的僚话呢?如果说一个大湖中央的一块陆地,僚话如何说?</div><p></p>